Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
YaBB - Yet another Bulletin Board
  Latest info can be found on the YaBB Chat and Support Community.
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegister  
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Faith and Doubt. (Read 4299 times)
John M

*****
Offline


A new place to begin

Posts: 888
Faith and Doubt.
06/18/14 at 03:01:55
 
In my experience doubt rarely feels as good as faith. We like to feel good, feeling not so good is not as good a feeling as good yet it is preferable to feeling bad.

I subscribe to a faith which is not necessarily true, it makes me feel more comfortable and less paranoid when I have this faith than when I do not.

When I drive or am on the public highway I have the faith that everyone else on the road is interested in making their journey as safe as possible. I know this isn't true yet having the faith that it is enables me to bypass any fight or flight response until it is needed. If my speed is 30 miles per hour and I collide with another object moving at the same speed we will hit each other at 60mph. Awareness of a potential 60mph collision is enough to activate the fight or flight response of most people. In this country it is routine for people to pass within a few feet of each other at a combined speed of 180mph. Perhaps the reasoning of others goes as follows : If I trust all other drivers it is better than not trusting them because when I trust others they can pass very close and I feel fine, it is in this way that I save my nerves and energy for when an emergency arises at which time I will have the speed and strength to avoid an accident. I think like that even though I know that there would be no time to act in most emergencies. I kid myself an enter potentially life threatening situations by chosing to believe what is untrue.

Every BK knows that one can write to Baba with a problem and he will give supreme advice. In Scientology students could write in much the same way to Ron (Ron Hubbard) - until he died. BK's had faith in Baba whilst Scientologists had faith in Ron.

Krishnamurti had the opportunity to do as BK's and Scientologists do but he thought better of it. That Krishnamurti at some point in his training decided that it would have been wrong for him to tread the specific path that others had mapped out from an early age is to his credit. That he could make such a decision was also a credit to his training.

Similar freedom is not found in the BK world; valid equates to faith whereas not valid equates to doubt. The quality of BK faith may often be dubious as students tend to be  pressured into having faith and not experiencing doubt. A person with faith is often pointed out as an example to all. Doubters (sometimes those with sharper discrimination than the faithful?) are an inevitable by product of creating the faithful as not everyone is capable of swallowing everything.

It can be tough for long term students. I know of some who initially experienced instant faith but found that it did not last. If one puts all eggs in one basket in this world as the BK encourage one to do there seems to be nowhere to go. In the BK world discussions about lack of faith are rare. As BK's occupy the root area of the world kalpa tree whilst no other people have access to that sap any apparently considerable shortcomings of the BK just have to be barking up the wrong tree. Well, that is the theory. Undecided
 
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
John M

*****
Offline


A new place to begin

Posts: 888
Re: Faith and Doubt.
Reply #1 - 06/19/14 at 16:57:14
 
"A guru who tries to impose his personality, his own way, and his own ideas upon the disciple violates the nature of his disciple."
Author - Lama Anagarika Govinda.

It seem to me that Krishnamurti would have agreed with the above.

"As I do others will follow"
a well known BK phrase

Were Krishnamurti  to hear that phrase his response could well be -
Why do we follow?
Why do we accept, why do we follow? We follow another’s authority, another’s experience and then doubt it; this search for authority and its sequel, disillusionment, is a painful process for most of us. We blame or criticize the once accepted authority, the leader, the teacher, but we do not examine our own craving for an authority who can direct our conduct. Once we understand this craving we shall comprehend the significance of doubt.

Most BK's that I have known have indulged themselves in thoughts that prove to their own satisfaction that they are on the right path. If others wish to follow them - and it seems to be expected that they will - then others are welcome. BK's are well wishers, as well as having the benefit of instruments good wishes the idea is for their students to learn to help themselves, by following what is advertised as a well worn path students easily and naturally become BK's. There has of necessity to be a lot of trust between those that give others a new family, new beliefs, new thoughts, new ways of seeing and understanding what this world is and what the part of a BK is. The crucial understanding for a student here is that seniors always act in accordance with God's instructions, ones devilish psyche has to be destroyed before the impending Destruction of this wicked vicious world takes place, only God can do this. Such is the understanding of BK's.

So we have on one hand Lama Anagarika Govinda who shies away from playing the part of being an Authority for others, on another hand we have Jiddu Krishnamurti even disbanded an organisation that had been set up specifically by Theosophists for him to play the part of an Authority; then on yet another hand we have the BK's who have no qualms about insisting that their students adopt many beliefs. In private BK's believe that they are Authorities in a way that others cannot hope to emulate as they are instruments of the Highest on High; good students understand this whereas for those that think that they know God but do not know him at all and for those that consider that God does not exist the Truth must be diluted somewhat.

An outsider perspective on one way of seeing a true believer in the BK way is to consider them an asset. It has been said that a way in which BK's help themselves that is not open to their students is by helping themselves to their students income or wealth. Condition students to see those of senior status as instruments for a God that actually exists and you can help yourself throughout the lifetime of that asset - even beyond as real pukka BK's write wills!

Special request
Information would be appreciated as to how the BK operate as regards wills. Do they advise students to make a will on a regular basis? Do they  pay for or contribute towards the cost of a will when the yagya is a beneficiary? Do they recommend a solicitor? Do they have standard forms? Do they give divine dispensation for a person to reduce their regular tithe during the month in which a will is made. Do they like to hold a copy of the will? Is there special status for those that make wills in the yagya's favour? Anything happen if you fail to obviously make a will in favour of the BK?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
John M

*****
Offline


A new place to begin

Posts: 888
Re: Faith and Doubt.
Reply #2 - 06/23/14 at 23:11:17
 
Two days ago I had the good fortune to observe in a few situations nurses interacting with the patients in their care. Vocational nurses are special beings, of this I have no doubt.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
John M

*****
Offline


A new place to begin

Posts: 888
Re: Faith and Doubt.
Reply #3 - 06/27/14 at 20:38:53
 
There's a lot happening in this world of ours. Apparently the Koran states that no one should be forced to practice religion. Somewhere there could well be a BK worrying about the Holocaust that is just around the corner. BK's want only what is from God - and of course your money!

But for news to warm the cockles of your 'eart try this http://jacksonkayak.com/blog/2014/06/19/paddling-with-a-purpose/

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
John M

*****
Offline


A new place to begin

Posts: 888
Re: Faith and Doubt.
Reply #4 - 06/30/14 at 17:02:09
 
The hats that we wear are many and varied. Family, Friends, Health, Career, Country, God etc. Some hats are considered more important that others, true values often emerge when the interest of one hat over-rides the interests of another - or several or even all other hats.

Pass the secrets of one country to another and treason with a death or lifelong incarceration may be the outcome. Speak poorly of a group that insists that it and it alone really knows God and ones immortal destiny could be second or even third rate forever. A subject in the Golden Age or a King in the Silver? If your all time destiny is really unlucky then your first birth takes place in the Copper Age or even Iron Age, the lowest of the low would be on this reckoning a first birth in the Confluence Age.

That the cycle can also be a most potent tool for self exploration is not denied, that it is also a most potent self institutionaliser is missed by many that innocently spin it for its realisation properties alone. 

Simply put there are thinkers and there are accepters, the thinkers are not as favoured by those that prefer the more pliable accepter material. It's different horses for different courses and the BK know what they are looking for. Some say that if something is not quite right it is best aired. But what if it can be a slur on ones destiny to air or try to air what authorities consider best hushed up? That and judgement with no appeal scenarios can be both political and the stuff of religious hatted mind control. 

The incongruency of BK materialist ambitions living alongside a perennial philosophy of immanent destruction have been apparent to those that are not afraid to see for many years. The clergy seem to have a lust for wealth in the name of God whilst those that they "serve" provide that wealth. The clergy have yogic power whilst those that they "serve" base their lives on BK methods of acquiring it. The BK Godly family plays the part of having it all whilst the less fortunate are limited only by their ability to take - from the Godly family of course! If along the way something is done that does not quite seem right to those that are happy to have their effort and values spoon fed by others there will be no difficulty in turning a blind eye. A thinkers world can be a little or even far more complex. The thinker by virtue of his is ability is party to a quandry that the accepter simply cannot see. To speak and potentially mar ones destiny or to be silent about that which one is unable to change?

When one turns a blind eye one endorses that which one has kept quiet about.

That others wear their blind eye hat beneath their top knot does not mean that it is the right thing to do. It is a persons right to decide for themselves.

If those that simply let those that know best decide for them will when the game ends also be as happy to let those "know best" others experience the Golden Age on their behalf then bread is baked sliced.

Back to top
« Last Edit: 06/30/14 at 18:38:07 by John M »  
 
IP Logged
 
Joel
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline



Posts: 391
Re: Faith and Doubt.
Reply #5 - 07/01/14 at 01:32:31
 
John M wrote on 06/30/14 at 17:02:09:
Simply put there are thinkers and there are accepters, the thinkers are not as favoured by those that prefer the more pliable accepter material.


BKs say they want to create kings, however those that exhibit substantial adult autonomy are quickly shown the door, or pigeon-holed as cooperative souls. From the BKs view, these people are not fully following God's directions, making them lower, later than the BKs believe themselves to be becoming.

The soldier/army metaphor, self-applied by the BKs, accurately describes their social organization. They share with military organizations the commitment to a group/theology/ideology and obedience to authority.
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
John M

*****
Offline


A new place to begin

Posts: 888
Re: Faith and Doubt.
Reply #6 - 07/16/14 at 18:48:11
 
“Charity is one of the nobler human motivations. The act of reaching into one's own pockets to help a fellow man in need is praiseworthy and laudable. Reaching into someone else's pocket is despicable and worthy of condemnation.”

— Walter Williams

As they say in Parliament - "Hear, Hear!"
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
John M

*****
Offline


A new place to begin

Posts: 888
Re: Faith and Doubt.
Reply #7 - 09/16/14 at 00:54:33
 
Where is faith? For that matter where is doubt? It exists in people's minds. Both are intangible yet the effect of both can often be seen and felt. In certain company faith is thought of as good and doubt is thought of as bad. Both qualities are created by the individual. From a gyan point of view to faith is good and to have doubt is bad. How about intelligent doubt? Sorry folks, in gyan doubt seems to be doubt and as such is undesirable. Simplistic thinking? Perhaps. One hears of the reward of faith, the idea seems to be that it is beneficial to have faith as it sooner or later has the potential of making certain high energy experiences of great benefit available to the individual. In other words believe that God is teaching and you may have the reward of your belief. Ask a BK if it is beneficial to know them and they will likely say something like "of course, ours is the best possible company."

Time is short, destruction before I press another key is likely. If drama allows I'll continue.

Smiley Still here! Yet is is late so for now I'd like to in simplistic fashion postulate that it is entirely up to the individual whether they create faith or doubt. If faith live with it, if doubt leave it alone .

To perhaps be continued....
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
John M

*****
Offline


A new place to begin

Posts: 888
Re: Faith and Doubt.
Reply #8 - 09/23/14 at 01:07:27
 
BK company is the best possible company in the entire kalpa.

Some poor individuals experience doubt in this direction.

I unlike many ex-bk's do not doubt the bk's - for me I see no reason to doubt. Yet I do have misgivings - here are a few.

Misgiving 1) Some BK's, even senior ones (the not so senior often unconciously pick up the attitudes of those that they perceive as Senior so perhaps every bk given time) have a reputation for hard attitudes, there can be some years between their episodes yet time and again certain people do not rock their boat.

I recall a time when a certain bk chose to manifest a hard attitude towards me. I complained about it and was told the person was a goddess. The goddess  bit I could swallow at the time yet the effect of the hard attitude was that I left gyan. Something doesn't quite fit here until one understands that in the BK world a goddess does what a goddess does and any student that falls foul of what a goddess does has to like it or lump it.

Misgiving 2) BK's are of course the servants of God, not only that they are the only true servants of God in the entire kalpa. Some Bk's think that way, foremost in that grey matter between their ears is to what degree they have surrendered to God sorry "Baba." They keep a chart of how much they have remembered the big "B", some even dream about the big "b" then when they meet their nearest and dearest in Madhuban the big "B" has to be given their name and what service they have done or are doing.

During my one visit to Maduban there was a particular lady who spoke to her big "B" as if they knew each other very well indeed, I am not sure how she was affected long term by big "b's" recoil in response to her words of love as I never saw her again. That the BK version of God knows not a jot about most students I cannot say. What I do know is that  Bap Dada can speak a murli, he also knows his name as he nodded in recognition when I uttered it. As for my name or history he was clueless.

Misgiving 3) Those at bk.info have something very much in common  the Bk's - they both want to tell you what to think. At loggerheads with each other they both need other peoples ears. To be fair on occassion I found more intelligent discussion at .info than with the BK yet both groups could do with at least a little work in that direction, on another tack couldn't we all? There is a well known bk saying, it is "If you do not do it someone else will" this can seem like the language of manipulation to an outsider, let us not forget that a goddess does what a goddess does, let us also recall that the BK had a reputation for discarding people once their wealth has run out. Could "seem like" be too kind - you decide. The BK need for money was probably to them more urgent in times past when BK's would request special donations and then ask for more in addition to the recommended tithe of 10%! (I recall an evening when I was directed to a class for two. The energy was powerful, as was the non murli request for 10% of my income) The .info "currency" is that one agrees with and attempts to perpetuate the myth that absolutely everything about the BK is worthless, those that cannot do this they have been known to discard. Similarities end when one moves to the BK picture of the world, .info doesn't offer one unless you want your life to be an anti bk life.  Without the BK .info would have nothing to say. So far .info's mockery of the BK predictions of destruction have proved accurate, their perceiving new BK predictions as a tool to increase income has a sting of truth that the BK best response to has been silence and no recent reported predictions.

Yet and I find this very odd - no member of .info seems to have any insight at all into the potency of BK thought currents. "Enough power to ride a lion" say the BK, its their way! As for cuddling it or making it purr the BK seeming lack in the heart and compassion departments is explained by - "if you are not detached you cannot love others." I am guessing here and I may be somewhat distant from the truth - the top goddess of bk ilk that uttered the words "No Mercy" was supremely detached. Smiley



 
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print