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Re: Having a good look around (Read 98024 times)
John M

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Re: Having a good look around
Reply #285 - 10/25/10 at 15:49:14
 
Apparently ex-l recently mentioned that if a ticket was bought for him to fly to India he would unearth the terrible historical truth about the BK's. I'll ignore living realities for the time being and concentrate on the ticket. Here is my contribution, hope the advice (which is not mine) proves useful.  Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyLbkMrSeRs
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Joel
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Re: Having a good look around
Reply #286 - 10/25/10 at 23:29:23
 
Thanks for this link. Made my day. I have to send to everyone in my address book. Grin
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John M

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Re: Having a good look around
Reply #287 - 10/26/10 at 13:58:57
 
Hi Joel I enjoyed it too - proof that not all BK's wear white.  Wink

Returning to ex-l's proposed mission he seeks to discredit the BK by proving that no BK spoke of Shiva Baba prior to 1950. The idea may be  to take Shiva Baba out of it and make the edifice fall. A more practical touchstone may be the way that BK's have treated others since that time.  

Some of what is said at .info is disagreement with the principles that the BK teach or even how they teach. People have the right to disagree.

Then there are tales of people being milked for their money and discarded when no longer useful.

Then they say that if the meditation goes awry the BK who instilled a faith in someone just walk away unconcerned about any long term negative effect that that faith may have.

These are all valid observations, often poorly documented; some are from those who would like to see internal reform and some are from those that would like the BK to be tarred as a dangerous cult and shut down. Specific situations and excellent documentation are required for either approach to be effective. If only more people kept detailed diaries.  Wink

What others believe is their business, when what they do affects me it becomes my business. I try to treat others fairly though a weakness is that I am more concerned with what I do than I am with changing what others do.  Wink
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Terry

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Re: Having a good look around
Reply #288 - 10/27/10 at 01:10:01
 
John M wrote on 10/26/10 at 13:58:57:
If only more people kept detailed diaries.

What about all those "charts" that were kept? They were detailed diaries... I have glimpsed some of others in my day, and they are very revealing. But I know for myself i threw away all of that stuff  when i decided i was through. if its possible to privately embarrass yourself, re-reading that kind of stuff will do it!.

Recent research i heard about showed that for for every person who was helped by therapy that involved relating and working through the past or the trauma, there was at least one, maybe two others who were adversely affected by that approach, who were better off leaving it all behind and engaging with their present life and the future.

The lesson to be drawn there may be that, if you can move on by truly engaging in life now and into the future, why drag the past with you? If you can't, then maybe you do have to reflect, analyse and process it all.
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John M

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Re: Having a good look around
Reply #289 - 10/27/10 at 11:06:38
 
Diaries have been around for a very long time. One idea is that if a life is worth living it is worth writing about - another is that for life to be worth living it is worth planning. Diaries can fulfill both functions and more.

Periodic reviews of diaries can reveal trends that are not immediately apparent to the experiencer.

To be embarrassed by what one wrote means that it was probably well worth writing. Many diarists consider their earlier stuff rudimentary, most learn to follow their own star. I once knew a person that wrote their diary in verse - amazingly good!

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John M

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Re: Having a good look around
Reply #290 - 10/29/10 at 18:16:54
 
I wonder why so many people are suspicious of the BK. They affirm the goodness in all human beings, isnt that what spirituality is about?

I recall Didi's farewell chat as a group left Madhuban. She said that we had all taken according to our ability to take. Was this a fact or was it an advertisement? This was not affirming the goodness of anyone other than those that made up the Madhuban that we saw, but one has to start somewhere.

The BK mention from time to time the value of attributive names. Give someone a title and they may live up to it.

From now on I'd like you all to think of me as good John as opposed to just John or even bad John, BK supporter. If you consider that I am good John I may live up to that title. If I don't I'd like you to know in advance that the fault is yours and that you should have really believed that I was good John. If it works you will have done better than the BK who despite their advertising their belief in the intrinsic goodness in every person thought that I was bad John. So folks my future is in your hands and from what I've seen of you lot so far - God Help Me!  Wink Wink Wink Wink
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John M

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Re: Having a good look around
Reply #291 - 11/06/10 at 13:59:43
 
I feel so at ease when dealing with present or past bk's, they are knowledgeable and someone has to know. Some know better than others and both present and past you know whats know better than almost all you know who's.

Whilst walking yesterday a friend and I passed a cluster of mole hills. Moles are not renowned for their eyesight but they have strong burrowing arms and powerful claws. Some people consider them a pest especially when they pop up in the middle of what otherwise is a perfectly manicured lawn.

That human souls do not transmigrate into animal bodies is a blessing, if they did it perhaps could be possible for a witch or wizard to cast such a dastardly spell that the object of their evil intent would take the form of a mole.

We do not become animals (I know this because those in the know told me) but our character can become animal like so I began to wonder if I or anyone I know was like a mole. Not like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePxiYDeOJ58

Thinking more blind as a bat with a nasty little swipe.  Wink
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« Last Edit: 11/06/10 at 19:52:15 by John M »  
 
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John M

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Re: Having a good look around
Reply #292 - 11/08/10 at 23:36:49
 
No sitting in the Confluence Age. No senses under control, No forehead shining. No happiness that others may share. No clean heart thats straight and true. No faith, no hope, no courage, no resonating to songs divine.

Fortunate that bhagats know nothing of those things.

Banished forever, constantly engaged in futile pursuits, ravaged by Saturn until the last feeble ember of life is snuffed.

Perhaps rebirth as a mole?

At last - something to look forward to.  Wink

Moles are cute - so I'm told  Wink
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John M

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Re: Having a good look around
Reply #293 - 11/10/10 at 15:37:42
 
How often do you hear "There is no reason why I should explain myself to anyone?"

This can be a defensive attitude for example. If I explain myself it may be found that I am in error. Therefore I can save face by not going into such detail that others may be able to point out any "slip."

If one hears "There is no time to explain now, we can speak later" a very different situation exists.

People are not generally into explaining themselves perhaps there is some truth in psychologists saying that we are only 40% rational. Of course this will not apply to you or me - that is an estimate through which we can begin to understand others.  Wink

Were the BK into explaining themselves the BK world would be very different. Ethical considerations as regards money and property could be discussed, situations where the BK just walk away from confusion that the study has evoked in students could be clarified and perhaps resolved, and situations where the BK come down very hard on certain persons with no explanation would cease to exist.

It is a fact that BK do not like forums such as .info and BK Watch. It seems that that they are also not fond of this one. (I base that last statement on Maureen Goodman not returning my call of many months ago - did you get the message Maureen?). People do leave these forums and a good thing too, but some are "lifers" or will be until the BK begin to explain.

In a sense this suggestion has little to do with me, I have not studied with the BK for a long time. So why the interest?

I do not see why I should explain myself to anyone.  Wink Wink Wink

Joking aside, it could be time consuming for just one BK to openly work through at least some issues mooted on these forums yet just one out of a million is all that is required. It could be tough service interacting with those that may try to destroy their faith and to speak kindly to those that hear through a screen of aversion or hatred may be thankless. Yet it could be far more than a token gesture, appoint the right person and it could have a marvellous effect. There again it could make things worse but if the BK do not even try these little thorns are likely to ache for some time to come.

It may be that those that authorise such a project would be the same people that had the most explaining to do, best to mention that.

A last point, there could be very good PR in doing this, of course you would have to admit that there has been more than one problem - but if the Pope can do it so can you. Perhaps I should delete this paragraph as it just occurred to me that the Pope mainly apologises for the actions of others. No, this is more of a chat than a treatise so let it stand.

p.s. If after reflection there seems to be no suitable candidate I can nominate someone but in the hope that others can do better than me I'll hold my peace for the time being.
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« Last Edit: 11/10/10 at 18:00:56 by John M »  
 
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John M

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Re: Having a good look around
Reply #294 - 12/13/10 at 15:57:25
 
What is useful and what is not?

A relevant question for most of us. We decide what we wish to achieve and use the tools that we consider are the most likely to help us achieve our goal.

Goal? some may ask, yes goal. There was an army general that on visiting a village noticed many bullseyes with a perfect shot in the middle of each one. On enquiring further he was directed to the village idiot. "Did you shoot these bullets?" he asked, "Yes" replied the idiot. Come and work for me said the general rubbing his hands at the prospect of employing the perfect sniper. A salary was agreed well in excess of the normal army pay. As they were leaving the village the General asked his new employee what his secret was. "Thats easy" came the reply, "first you shoot the bullets and then you paint the rings."
 
I will be away for sometime as I have targets to paint.  Wink
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Terry

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Re: Having a good look around
Reply #295 - 12/14/10 at 11:17:19
 
Quote:
"first you shoot the bullets and then you paint the rings."

(the image is ironically just like that of a shivbaba painting hey?)

That is a fine summary of the vedantic/theistic approach to spirituality - make a statement (shoot the bullets) - about God or atma or afterlife - and then "paint the rings" of your wish-fulfilling logic around it to support it, cart before the horse stuff.

Logic and reason and practicality are based on "if this (first), then that (follows)" - or as we say 'get your priorities right" - and "first things first".

Bad Buddhist (and other) teaching makes the same mistake - it finds the "bullet hole" of cultural baggage, and then selectively draws on texts or tradition to reinforce that - looking for all the world to be "on target.

"Sin" originally meant "to miss the target" - so it really is a sin to miss the target of simple "being" and "knowing", and then cleverly paint rings (cycles?) to cover your "Rsoul" and present yourself as perfect.

Good buddhist (and other) teaching says - what is the premise, what is first, know how to breathe, move, think clearly - do not assume anything, work from the ground up, look closer, feel deeper, let go of preconception and hearsay....

the latin phrase was "caveat emptor" (let the buyer beware) but now we say "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is"...
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John M

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Re: Having a good look around
Reply #296 - 12/14/10 at 23:39:20
 
It would be all too easy for me to become an arch enemy of the BK's. God knows I could, probably anyone else would if their experience was similar to mine - but. Something good is happening, then a painful event takes place; should that painful happening colour the previous good?  I loved her and she loved me but she smiled at someone else - so I never loved her anyway.  Grin For things to be all good or all bad seems real when the reactive mind is at play.

The situation for some of us is that we have to stop reacting to a not so good effect of BK whatever. We don't have to do this to save the BK from any embarrassment or hassle, if certain persons did not or acted as if they did not care about us why be considerate of them? The reason for unearthing any habitual reaction to past events is that we cannot create well as we are before we begin partially distracted from the next thing that we wish to do.

There are some good Buddhist Books around. Wisdom Energy by Lama Yeshe and Zopa Rinpoche and The Great Path of Awakening by Jamgon Kontrul are two that are part of my current study material. Terry's "work from the ground up" is as he says a Buddhistic approach. Understanding oneself is a very different way to the BK continual recapitulation of God and his divine acts. Surprisingly for me Buddhist teachings seem to be aware of the snags that one can pop up with BK methods (read Wisdom Energy and see). I am not saying this to influence anyone in anyway, all I am doing is saying how it seems to me.

The BK's may be good, the Buddhists may be good and many others may be good but how about me? Because I steal certain ideas from others does not make me good. I seek and use methods that may improve my life, I experiment. I could get involved in all kinds of stuff if I wish to forget about improving myself and my immediate environment. I could even go on a hate / put down campaign against the BK and/or their knowledge but is that wise when I could also choose to seek enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings? Apparently when we are realised we can really be of great service to others. This is the way the BK see what they do, that their guaranteed path did not work out for some of us has made our lives somewhat different from any previous norm in the kalpa.  Wink

p.s. To be as considerate as practicable towards every other person on this planet could be very much in our own interests. I trust that all readers have appreciated the context in which paragraph two was written, if you did not then please ask for clarification.
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Terry

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Re: Having a good look around
Reply #297 - 04/25/13 at 08:35:51
 
Today in Australia, 25th April,   it is ANZAC Day - a memorial day for deceased and returned servicemen in the armed forces.

It has become part of the national psyche, part of our national myth, and it has been growing stronger - with ever-increasing attendances at services, new books, articles, discussions - over recent years. Young people gather at memorial services all over the country.  Travellers in their thousands make a pilgrimage to Gallipoli in Turkey for the dawn service each year , the place where the combined Australian and New Zealand Army Corps were slaughtered by a Turkish army defending its borders. Thousands died on every side. It made the name of ANZAC known - and is now applied to all soldiers in all battles of every war since, even if there's no combined ANZAC force.

Myth is an ancient word that simply means "a story often told". We each have our personal myths that we tell ourselves each hour of each day, ego recites from a script "This is who I am".  Societies have their myths - "This is who we are, this is why we are what we are". 

I wondered why this story is being told and retold with more and more passion, detail, interest each year, there's more books - some massive volumes - coming out each year, why it has become even more part of the culture than it was 50 years ago.

I put it down to it being a substitute for the decline in meaning and significance of the traditional annual rituals - Christmas, Easter etc. Those stories don't connect emotionally any more. The virgin birth and resurrection etc are inspiring for some but people can't empathise with such a non-human event, whereas they can identify easily with the reality of how human character is revealed in extreme situations. This, and the fact that the original participants have increasing numbers of descendants looking to their roots, means that repeating annually the familiar stories - with additional detail each time - of struggle, suffering , overcoming and eventual victory (and the relative peace and security of the present) makes this become a myth that a society builds on.

Kerry Greenwood, an author, today spoke of the emotional connection she felt at Gallipoli as it is practically in view of that other great nation (nay, culture) -spawning myth from a field of battle, the plains of Troy, for which she has long affinity.

She pointed out her dislike of the way the current telling of the ANZAC myth distorts the humanity of Australians.

As she pointed out, we (Australians) only mention NZ because it's in the name, otherwise they are ignored. They ignore the fact that there were Indian and Sri Lankan troops there, and Canadians. Also ignored are those like nurses and the conscientious objectors who were forced to be stretcher-bearers and medics, and others who did not bear arms but would bravely enter the battlefields and rescued the wounded to do what they could for them, or wrote letters and sent belongings back to wives and mothers.

They do not discuss the fact that, for all talk of loyalty, right, duty, king, country & empire, the war itself was fought over outdated imperialist values that had nothing to do with the newly independent democratic nation of Australia and was an unmitigated disaster ending in retreat because of subservience to the inept british planners (including Winston Churchill).

She stated that it allows two or three generations to grow up believing that the honour and character-building of such ventures is worthwhile for they have been divorced from the realities of what happened, the rest of the story. And so it goes...

Quote:
If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin,
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs
Bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
Wilfred Owen

Transl:("How sweet and right it is to die for one's country'')
It also ignores the bravery and generosity of the army defending its own shores, led by Kamal Ataturk who would later lead his country to become a modern secular democratic nation.
Quote:
In 1930, fourteen years after the cessation of hostilities in the Gallipoli campaign, the President of Turkey, Kemal Ataturk, had received a letter from mothers of the fallen ANZACS, requesting permission to visit the graves of their sons. Ataturk sat down and penned a deeply comforting letter to the women:

Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives… you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours… You, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well. Kemal Ataturk.”
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