http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl BK Ex-Change en-us BK Ex-Change Sun, 20 May 2012 11:59:24 GMT http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss YaBB 2.4 Revision: 1.28 30 http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1251531847/32#32 BK Ex-Change/Family and Friends http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1251531847/32#32 johnmorgan8@sky.com (John M) Sat, 19 May 2012 08:46:18 GMT Do I detect your daughter's influence?   <img src="http://xbkchat.net/yabbfiles/Smilies/2vrolijk_08.gif" border="0" alt="Smiley" title="Smiley" /> <img src="http://xbkchat.net/yabbfiles/Smilies/2vrolijk_08.gif" border="0" alt="Smiley" title="Smiley" /> http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1236837629/203#203 BK Ex-Change/The forum at BrahmaKumaris.info http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1236837629/203#203 johnmorgan8@sky.com (John M) Sat, 19 May 2012 01:22:25 GMT <b><a href="http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1236837629/202#202">Terry wrote</a> on <b>Yesterday</b> at 00:45:29:</b><br /><div>Don’t know that there was any ”mediation”.  </div><br /><br />Easton wrote in his last post -<br /><br /><i>"Over a week ago a resolution of this matter had been successfully brokered – which took a period of 2 weeks. I fully honoured my part of this arrangement, which meant that all the issues that the forum claimed to be concerned about were completely dealt with by me. I went further than this and said if any outstanding issues presented themselves I would ensure that they were resolved too." </i><br /><br />No matter whether one calls it brokerage or mediation or talk something happened, there were even conditions to it. I have seen Echo's post - constructive. Easton is a peacemaker too - in the paragraph above he bent over backwards. ex-l provides a contrast - he has to my mind hanged himself. <br /><br />The first line of Easton's last post on brahmakumaris .info reads as follows - <br /><i>"It is now clear for all to see that this forum has no integrity or conscience."</i> <br /><br /><b><a href="http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1236837629/202#202">Terry wrote</a> on <b>Yesterday</b> at 00:45:29:</b><br /><div>Unfortuantely ex-l doesn’t get the spirit of the post, that is, that both TRA and bk. info are about helping and they could have worked together.  </div><br /><br />Yes, it did at one point seem that way to me also. ex-l's recent activity has made me aware that this notion is naive at best but downright misleading at worst.<br /><br />I look forward to and often enjoy your posts Terry.<br /><br /><br /><br /> http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1251971223/8#8 BK Ex-Change/Growth http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1251971223/8#8 constantcreations@me.com (Terry) Mon, 7 May 2012 02:54:39 GMT <i>A post I made on another forum in a topic  ”The experience of meditation” , I thought would be worthwhile posting a copy here too...</i><br /><br />Thank you for your addition to this thread Mark. You write about the contradiction and problems in ”discussing” meditation.<br /> It led me to re-read all the thread  and once again enjoy the head space which it creates. That ambience created, in itself, surely confirms the value of talking about meditation, whether externally or internally. At the very least, it stops a hell of a lot of more useless chatter which is usually a reaction to immediate stimuli and detracts from a more worthwhile use of our time.<br /><br /> <b>Quote:</b><br /><div>Nino earlier wrote: in this spirit, allow me to share something of my experience of meditation. How do I describe such an experience? In regards to observing mind making contact with object, if I were to employ the metaphor of water, it is akin to observing a drop of water become a trickle, then a stream, then a raging river flowing eventually into a vast ocean where ultimately it finds a home and allows the swimmer (thinker) to swim in this ocean of thought....... </div><br /><br />This description of your meditation Nino is similar to the language of sufi (and other) mystics. <br /><br />The famous sufi poet Rumi spoke of ”all three as one” - where the three are the knower, the known & the knowing; or where drinker, wine & cupbearer are one; speaker, hearer & spoken words are one, etc. A Christian mystical understanding of the trinity could also share these metaphors.<br /><br />Where these parallels split off with Buddhist meditation, IMO, is that this kind of experience/understanding would not be the ”end” or "goal" of the meditation but a gateway to ”enter the stream” and become ’sotapanna".<br /><br />The theistic mystic has a foundational paradigm of a fixed absolute being/knowing. That ”oneness” experience is ”it” (and not a bad ”it” at that!)<br /><br />The buddhist foundational paradigm is mutable, temporal, nonbeing. Pratitya samutpada (co-dependent arising) sunyatta and anatta (emptiness of own being, no permanent self) - which makes for a different ‘response’ to the ”oneness” experience. Once felt, ”oneness” is then begging to be seen through, it transfigures and dissolves.<br /><br />Talking, writing or reading about meditation and buddhism is often tedious, language being such a linear form. I like stories, metaphor and particularly images as they carry so much import in a concentrated or simple form. <br /><br />The paradox of the stream - simultaneously being & becoming - is a metaphor which has a tangent in another metaphor, an image I only ever saw once and haven’t been able to find again. In a museum in India, I saw a simple ‘sculpture’ thought to be Jain but possibly Buddhist. It was a representation of the universe. There was a rectangular piece of polished metal and out of the metal was cut the shape of a standing man. That is, the man was ”empty”, like a piece of flat pastry with the gingerbread man cut out, but in metal. Simple and evocative. Reminded me of Protagoras’s ”man is the measure of all things’ - then asking ”but what is man?"<br /><br />In longer deeper meditations, I often find myself become ”hollow”, my boundaries (point of contact) seem to invert. The other image that speaks to that "is/is not” experience is the zen (and other traditions’) images of the (almost) closed circle. I like this one too.<br /><a href="http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/labyrinth.bmp" rel="gb_image[nice_pics]" title="..."><img src="http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/labyrinth.bmp" name="post_img_resize" alt="..." title="..." border="0" /></a> http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1242876530/11#11 BK Ex-Change/Anything and Everything http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1242876530/11#11 constantcreations@me.com (Terry) Fri, 4 May 2012 02:06:11 GMT <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-17935041" target="_blank">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-17935041</a><br />follow up with <br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Sutra" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Sutra</a> http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1323487051/1#1 BK Ex-Change/Anything and Everything http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1323487051/1#1 constantcreations@me.com (Terry) Thu, 3 May 2012 01:34:34 GMT Further to the post above, regarding  the second part where i discussed using <b>fasting as a prevention and/or part of the cure for cancers and other diseases...</b><br /><br />This is finally being researched in a way that is acceptable to mainstream medicine and they are confirming it’s effectiveness.<br />Transcript or audio here:  <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/chemotherapy-and-fasting-to-treat-cancer/3963102" target="_blank">http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/chemotherapy-and-fasting-to-treat-cancer/3963102</a> http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1334989965/2#2 BK Ex-Change/BK Concerns http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1334989965/2#2 constantcreations@me.com (Terry) Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:29:02 GMT There is a big oriental community in Ashfield (not a community of "chunky chinks" but rather a populous community of Chinese and Koreans  <img src="http://xbkchat.net/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif" border="0" alt="Smiley" title="Smiley" />)  and that particular property would make a great ”statement” for any status seeking buyer - an attribute not unknown in that community. It’s tower has quite a view and is easily visible from afar.<br /><br />Although architecturally ”peculiar” (and I believe heritage listed)  it is essentially designed as a large home for a well-to-do family. Lots of foreign chinese and korean money coming into Sydney real estate as well - and Ashfield has many other large houses along with the streets full of apartments. it is also well located - they will get market price I’m sure.<br /><br />I do not dispute that the official BK financial position is good, its just that costs of upkeep are also very high, hence the shedding and consolidating of property to the more ”cost-effective” ones. The old formula of having a net of centres across the metropolis to ”serve’ locals with 7-day courses,  murli and evening classes is gone.  (They  stream audio of many classes from Ashfield  via the internet these days, less reason to go)<br /><br />The house sale funding the extension mentioned is the deceased estate of Wendy Sargent, who willed it so. (It is coincidentally the first anniversary of her passing this week). http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1239190411/18#18 BK Ex-Change/Anything and Everything http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1239190411/18#18 Sun, 15 Apr 2012 18:09:59 GMT Religious discplines are like wearing a corset: you feel special but can't breathe. http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1236501962/55#55 BK Ex-Change/Administrivia http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1236501962/55#55 Tue, 10 Apr 2012 00:08:39 GMT Hi all,<br /><br />In anticipation of possible of security/spamming concerns, inactive members are now joined to the Read-only group. Please PM me (and include your content) if you find a need to post. Best wishes and blessings to all.<br /><br />Joel<br /><br /> http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1248919583/23#23 BK Ex-Change/Anything and Everything http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1248919583/23#23 constantcreations@me.com (Terry) Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:55:51 GMT <b><a href="http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1248919583/22#22">John M wrote</a> on 12/11/10 at 16:37:29:</b><br /><div>Know how to listen, and you will profit even from those who talk badly. <br /><br />Plutarch - Greek biographer & moralist (46 AD - 120 AD) <br />  </div><br />Here’s a chap who knows how to talk well! You will definitely profit from listening.<br /><br />And I sit it inside this thread about ”Fiction can often reveal the truth better” because the book the talk is based on <b>”Religion for Atheists” by Alain De Botton,</b> is saying exactly that - as an avowed atheist he looks at what Religions (as fictions) offer, even to atheists - what are the real truths within them that give them their power - and why confrontational atheists (who live in North Oxford)  not only miss the point but are counterproductive.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/tv/bigideas/stories/2012/03/19/3455152.htm" target="_blank">http://www.abc.net.au/tv/bigideas/stories/2012/03/19/3455152.htm</a><br /><br />Bookmark for later - or download - ***** (5 stars)<br /> http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1239510806/26#26 BK Ex-Change/Ex-BK Concerns http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1239510806/26#26 constantcreations@me.com (Terry) Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:36:40 GMT Always good fun finding the most appropriate thread to add to for what’s on one’s mind, re-reading the old posts and seeing what’s changed and what hasn’t (did I really write that?)<br /><br />Anyway - on being ordinary.....<br /><br /><b>Highly Recommended Listening</b><br /><br />It’s not as unusual as you’d like to believe to have been drawn into ”high demand” groups (the new buzzword for cults). Was listening to one of my favourite radio programs the other day, and thought to share the link for replay and podcast. The BK/exBK experience is so far from unique its almost embarrassing to feel oneself as ”extraordinary.”  .... and much of what is said can be applied to mainstream religion, family, or any grouping where these dynamics come into play<br /><br />Download now for later listening (they usually only leave them up for about a month)<br /><br />Rachael Kohn’s "The spirit of things” is a weekly program on ABC’s  Radio National<br /><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/spiritofthings/life-after-a-cult/3888880" target="_blank">http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/spiritofthings/life-after-a-cult/3888880</a><br /><br />One main point made is - its not so much the philosophy of the group as the dynamics and manipulation that is the problem. Also interesting is one definition between a cult, a sect and a religion (near the end) based partly on how they interact with the society at large. http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1272785302/6#6 BK Ex-Change/Spirituality http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1272785302/6#6 Tue, 13 Mar 2012 15:24:51 GMT I think spirituality is already organised and so needs no bastardising from us bastards.<br />However, we do insist, and then there are those who benefit from "organising" things.<br />Just a bit of "friendly fire" http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1328787453/8#8 BK Ex-Change/Outside Resources for understanding BKs http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1328787453/8#8 constantcreations@me.com (Terry) Sun, 4 Mar 2012 01:48:45 GMT This article from a women's lifestyle magazine:<br /><a href="http://www.beyondorange.org/docs/MadisonNov.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.beyondorange.org/docs/MadisonNov.pdf</a><br /><br />Another series of abuses of "spiritual relationship" - in a group that has their "international" HQ just up the road from where i live - innocuously teaching Hatha Yoga to the general public, but has a Guru "lineage' behind it, an ashram in Rajasthan, runs schools and clinics for the poor etc... familiar?<br /><br />Where a former member of this group says she finally left when she had a daughter and thought of her future in the group and what might happen to her, it made me wonder why the "mothers of the world" - as JM reminds us is how they like to present themselves - that are the leaders of the BKWSU were not as equally ferociously protective of their charges?<br /><br />It reveals to me that their "baby" is really the organisation, they will do whatever is required to protect and feed it, even at the expense of real abuse of real people, even children. Even the world, seven billion people and all of nature, are fodder for its hunger for "glorification" .<br /><br />The article brings up an issue about why people stay even when they know about or have been abused. There's "nowhere else to go"  - or the murli line "the only shop in town" , "god himself" etc etc.<br /><br /> It made me aware how the mother of the young girl who had been the most well-known victim of abuse and its subsequent cover-up  to us on this forum's predecessor (<a href="http://xbkinfo.infogami.com/" target="_blank">http://xbkinfo.infogami.com/</a>) was able to accept the "official" line and continue her participation in the BKWSU. She was now of the mindset of being a "mother of the world"  (read BK world) herself and saw even the most tragic particular events as part of a 'cosmic plan"....... if you are mother of All, you are mother of nothing in particular. 'Spiritual" hierarchy inevitably leads to abuse of all kinds.<br /><br />Footnote: <i>there is a real tradition in tantric and other hinduism which embraces sexuality and I have no problem with that at all. Here the guru has presented as part of a different tradition of the brahmachari  yogi (that the BKs also follow)  that supposedly honours celibacy above all else etc but conveniently spouts the "tantra' tag to justify his peccadilloes. By the sound of these people's reports,  he is not (teaching as) a tantrika.</i> It is an abuse of power and position, even what may appear consensual is not really between equals.<br /> http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1330572220/1#1 BK Ex-Change/Outside Resources for understanding BKs http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1330572220/1#1 constantcreations@me.com (Terry) Sat, 3 Mar 2012 04:37:51 GMT And now there is .... drum roll...<br /><br />Peace of Mind TV<br /><br /><a href="http://pmtv.in/" target="_blank">http://pmtv.in/</a><br /><br />hmmm, are the BKs risking all, even breaking their own directives as to who should be able to hear/read murli, to get the gyan out,  daring to "Bring it on" - i.e the destruction - which can't happen until the whole world has had an opportunity to hear the gyan and respond, determining their eternal religion by their response, thereby creating their individual fortune?<br /><br />This must lead to the question: if this aspect of the gyan is correct, that all souls hear the gyan and have the opportunity to become "baba's" and so  create their eternal fortune by how they respond, how is it conceivable that that happens? <br />7 billion people - can they all, in their last lifetime (it has to be in their last lifetime) receive the gyan in a meaningful enough way to make such a cosmically significant decision? http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1329069092/2#2 BK Ex-Change/Newcomers http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1329069092/2#2 johnmorgan8@sky.com (John M) Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:29:12 GMT <a href="http://www.myspace.com/louiscennamomusic" target="_blank">http://www.myspace.com/louiscennamomusic</a> http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1270726506/20#20 BK Ex-Change/Spirituality http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1270726506/20#20 Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:17:10 GMT I am meditating now. I am making no effort. It is not the best meditation I have ever had, especially given the pressures and distractions in my rickety life. <br />I am always meditating, it is just a question of the quality of experience.<br />To sit down and ritually meditate is another thing. Right now I could probably do with it, but it has to become natural at some point, and so we are always "meditating", in real terms. <br />It is a word/term used to describe simply being, pref. in a state of mind close to our original state of essence being combined with acting through these bodies in this world (or any other).<br />In real terms, the best we can hope for are glimpses of reality beyond this superficial illusion and all its non sense. <br />(sorry, didnt have time to read previous posts on this thread so will be back to do so)<br />I don't have the "truth", I seek the truth. Peace http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1328117810/4#4 BK Ex-Change/BK Concerns http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1328117810/4#4 Sat, 11 Feb 2012 22:06:25 GMT <b><a href="http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1328117810/3#3">Terry wrote</a> on 02/11/12 at 08:01:16:</b><br /><div>I also have not looked at any murlis for a long long time now. As I understand it, they are being 'revised" every time they come around (its a 5 year cycle not 5000 years!).  </div><br /><br />Finding inconsistencies after one such cycle in a murli I had photocopied and kept was an important step in my deciding to leave, along with many, many other signals that it was time to move on.<br /><br />Sorry, not many posts lately, BKs are quite far from my mind. I'm just an ordinary guy, just myself, with all the creativity, compassion, intelligence and stupidity that implies. <img src="http://xbkchat.net/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif" border="0" alt="Smiley" title="Smiley" /> btw, BKs praise being "ordinary" yet the BK guru worship is far, far from "ordinary" behavior.<br /><br />Joel (lazily as Admin) http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1324552709/14#14 BK Ex-Change/Outside Resources for understanding BKs http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1324552709/14#14 constantcreations@me.com (Terry) Tue, 7 Feb 2012 01:04:46 GMT <b><a href="http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1324552709/13#13">John M wrote</a> on 02/06/12 at 15:13:12:</b><br /><div> The student assumes that "the little more" is because of the meditation - thanks to <b>another's</b> energy............. Brand loyalty equals steady income!   </div><br /><br />That reminds me of a conversation I was having with someone recently about our mutual neighbour.<br /><br />To generalise it, I'll put it this way in the form of analogy. <br /><br />When we go to a doctor or therapist, we are asking them to facilitate nature in its healing processes, expecting they have some knowledge or ability  that we may either lack or are unable to do on our own (like check out the back of our own head!). At least that is how I approach it.<br /><br /><b>Once the circumstances for healing are enabled and the obstacles to healing are removed, our natural tendency <u>is</u> toward healing and growth -  physically or mentally.</b><br /><br />Some get caught up in dogmas about modailty - surgical, medical, herbal, oriental, psychological, spiritual etc etc - "believing in" one to the exclusion of others. We can lose sight of the fact it's the person (time and nature) who heals themselves - the doctor does not <i>give</i> healing he just helps set up preconditions. Gurus, teachers, politicians etc really are the same in their spheres.<br /><br />The best modality is the most appropriate one. Sometimes complimenting one with another is more effective, sometimes it's counterproductive.<br /><br /><b>Where you become a passive consumer of treatments, you lose the help of the one most qualified to help you, and that's yourself</b>.  You contract out your health care to others, expecting them to do it for you, and you give yourself over into their care , forgetting they can only ever "understand" the tip of the iceberg - or as much of it as you are able to describe clearly,  or that they have  learnt to see. <br /><br />My neighbour had  a change in routine, along with mid-life crisis exaggerated by a loss of maybe her last chance at marriage, giving up her job to look after her mother etc. staying indoors all day every day...... She had a bad day one day, a very ordinary lapse of memory brought on by basically a loss of routines, where each day is more of the same,  where she forgot she'd driven to the shops , walked home and the next day reported her car stolen. I had done the same thing myself a couple of times, as most often we walk to the shops as they are close by, and out of habit you walk home, or part way, until you remember.<br /><br />I am not sure what she told the doctor but she is now on regular medication, has been told not to drive her car for fear of losing concentration and crashing. She hardly leaves the house - trapped by the diagnosis and treatment. Of course, the conditions needed for her to heal are that she get out and about, develop new interests, new routines etc. rather than sit indoors and watch TV all day.  The doctor had exaggerated the symptoms and is treating those, he's commanded brand loyalty and regular income -  and successfully courted surrender to his "superior knowledge".<br /><br />The basis for my choice in becoming a BK were like the two you mention JM, but I'd use words like "self realisation" and 'explorations of consciousness" along with youthful idealism of changing the world for the better (looking for a spiritual revolution or counter-culture) and enjoying the community of like-minded people. I used any rationality to tell myself that the critiques by the BKs of the world had validity (who can argue that the world is corrupt, materialistic, consumerist etc) and the experiences had in meditation were profound, therefore authenticating the nominal "granter" of these experiences. That's the mistake - it is as natural as healing, and the modality/gyan/meditation technique is secondary , it's merely a framework, but if the doctor insists and we give over, we become "chronic patients''.<br /><br />It took me many years to realise I had given over responsibility for my own health and growth - i.e. my <u>self</u> realisation - I had contracted it out to another - like to a doctor - who'd hooked me into his world view, and i lived according to his diagnosis and prescription. it served me for a while - but he was never going to recommend anything different.<br /><br />The brainwash? It's self-inflicted - like eating "comfort food" to compensate for feeling unhealthy - if I eat<i> even more</i> of what's good for me, i will lose weight, if I keep taking these medicines to alleviate the symptoms I can keep doing what causes the illness.......<br /> http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1327498951/1#1 BK Ex-Change/Ex-BK Concerns http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1327498951/1#1 constantcreations@me.com (Terry) Thu, 26 Jan 2012 02:57:32 GMT I agree that <i>possessiveness </i>and<i> jealousy </i>come from fear - which is a stronger word for feeling insecure, and the less secure, or more fearful,  one feels, the more one seeks to control. <br /><br />They are also a sign that any love felt is not just for the person but for what they help me feel, so you want to "fix' that into something more permanent;  and to "own" it the way I want to have my "own" car to have the guarantee it's there when I need it and do what i want it to when i want it to. http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1298495874/14#14 BK Ex-Change/Ex-BK Concerns http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1298495874/14#14 constantcreations@me.com (Terry) Thu, 26 Jan 2012 02:36:49 GMT Hi John<br /><br />I don't disagree with you at all. i was merely pointing out that what was written above coincidentally revealed the particular traditions we were brought up in.<br /><br />Both are variations of the same tradition and both came out of the mesopotamian codes. <br /><br />Sometimes mercy or forgiveness is a harsher (psychological) penalty for an offender than punishment, and other times mercy and forgiveness are not appreciated by a perpetrator, so are wasted - I'm sure you know what i mean if you think about it.<br /><br />Revenge has a sense of "payback" but never fully succeeds as, unlike monetary payback of a debt or a loss,  things and people can't be "set right,"  they can never be as they were, .  <br /><br /> <b>Quote:</b><br /><div>spark: If I am not in my 'natural' state of consciousness, I am likely to feel slightly uncomfortable. For those with a big magnifying glass, it can no doubt become something else, bigger. </div><br />This is where I find buddhist philosophy useful, where it separates out from most spiritual philosophies. <br /><br />Most others have a notion of what "should" be - a "natural state of consciousness" or an idea there is a definite right and wrong response to anything and everything. It's an hopeful idealisation that is the flip-side of the "discomfort" felt.<br /><br />When we are not in discomfort or stress,  we happily live in that pleasant state, we aren't thinking about "what should be"  or "hoping" for anything else. When things feel wrong, we "remember" the more pleasant state, see that as being "my real self" and blame ourselves, others or circumstances for the change.<br /><br />That denies the reality of the less pleasant state, my "self" presence in that, or that in "me" . We try to dissociate from the less pleasant and try to associate with the more pleasant. That's natural.... but this just adds momentum to the pendulum.<br /><br />Buddhism says that neither state -  pleasant or unpleasant - is "self" ; that any <i>fixed</i> sense of who I am (or should be) is delusional - because "self" cannot be anything other than what I notionally am in response to what I am experiencing, and if examined, that notion is as ever changing as anything else. Therefore <u>any</u> notion of self is part of samsara or the world of change.<br /><br />If we can detachedly observe as we are experiencing either pleasant or unpleasant, we actually take away momentum from the pendulum, without necessarily making the pleasant less so, nor the unpleasant more so. <br /><br />The irony is that its actually less likely to happen when we are feeling good about ourselves!  We usually try to detach when things are not pleasant - so, as I said, we latch on to the pleasant (or its memory)  and consider that as "natural self" - and with that set the top spinning again.<br /><br />Like a clutch engaging the gears, the "latching on" is what creates the whirring, the vertigo (etymologically both share a common root with the word vritti) that is any notion of self (ego). When it's going well, we enjoy the fire of the notional self and, when it''s not going so well, we don't like what we see.<br /><br /> I think the trick is to disengage when possible, and to stay aware of the mechanism when it is not possible to disengage(mindfulness in action). http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1256984381/18#18 BK Ex-Change/BK Concerns http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1256984381/18#18 Wed, 18 Jan 2012 08:48:42 GMT The Global BK Forum does not exist anymore. If anyone wants to read the articles which I have written, the names and links for articles and videos by me can be found at:<br /><a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumaris/pari-s-articles-and-videos" target="_blank">Global Brahma Kumaris - Pari's articles and videos</a><br /><br />The links to the latest articles are on the top so that one can easily know if there are new articles that have been written. One can also get the links through the words in the Index. Please click on the alphabets below (which links you to the relevant pages).<br /><br /><a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-a" target="_blank">A</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-b" target="_blank">B</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-c" target="_blank">C</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-d" target="_blank">D</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-e" target="_blank">E</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-f" target="_blank">F</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-g" target="_blank">G</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-h" target="_blank">H</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-i" target="_blank">I</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-j" target="_blank">J</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-k" target="_blank">K</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-l" target="_blank">L</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-m" target="_blank">M</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-n" target="_blank">N</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-o" target="_blank">O</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-p" target="_blank">P</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-q" target="_blank">Q</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-r" target="_blank">R</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-s" target="_blank">S</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-t" target="_blank">T</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-u" target="_blank">U</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-v" target="_blank">V</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-w" target="_blank">W</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-x-y-z-etc" target="_blank">X Y Z</a> http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1254012757/12#12 BK Ex-Change/BK Concerns http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1254012757/12#12 Wed, 18 Jan 2012 08:46:12 GMT The Global BK Forum does not exist anymore. If anyone wants to read the articles which I have written, the names and links for articles and videos by me can be found at:<br /><a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumaris/pari-s-articles-and-videos" target="_blank">Global Brahma Kumaris - Pari's articles and videos</a><br /><br />The links to the latest articles are on the top so that one can easily know if there are new articles that have been written. One can also get the links through the words in the Index. Please click on the alphabets below (which links you to the relevant pages).<br /><br /><a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-a" target="_blank">A</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-b" target="_blank">B</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-c" target="_blank">C</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-d" target="_blank">D</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-e" target="_blank">E</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-f" target="_blank">F</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-g" target="_blank">G</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-h" target="_blank">H</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-i" target="_blank">I</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-j" target="_blank">J</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-k" target="_blank">K</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-l" target="_blank">L</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-m" target="_blank">M</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-n" target="_blank">N</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-o" target="_blank">O</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-p" target="_blank">P</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-q" target="_blank">Q</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-r" target="_blank">R</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-s" target="_blank">S</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-t" target="_blank">T</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-u" target="_blank">U</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-v" target="_blank">V</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-w" target="_blank">W</a> <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/globalbrahmakumarisaliens/8-x-y-z-etc" target="_blank">X Y Z</a> http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1303305718/29#29 BK Ex-Change/Family and Friends http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1303305718/29#29 constantcreations@me.com (Terry) Sat, 3 Dec 2011 02:41:34 GMT Two days ago, Thursday, and five months after her death, a small group of us were invited by Margaret Sargent, Wendy's mother, to come down to Bundeena for sprinkling Wendy's ashes into the water there as per her wishes. It was those who were primarily involved in caring for Wendy in her last days, or those of us who could make it.<br /><br />It was a clear sunny day, officially the first day of summer here, but with a strong cool breeze off the ocean which took the heat out of it.  We took the small ferry at Cronulla to Bundeena, where Margaret, a friend of hers and John F. got on board, and we took the ferry back to Cronulla, the 7 of us sitting outside at the back. <br /><br />As we passed the  Sargent home on the beach front, Margaret gave out Wendy' s ashes, which had been divided into a number of small bags, and these were sprinkled in turn over the side.<br /><br />On reaching Cronulla, those of us who came from that side, disembarked and drove home. <br />Margaret and co. took the ferry back to Bundeena.<br /><a href="http://beachbedandbreakfast.com.au/a_ferry_l816.JPG" rel="gb_image[nice_pics]" title="..."><img src="http://beachbedandbreakfast.com.au/a_ferry_l816.JPG" name="post_img_resize" alt="..." title="..." border="0" /></a><br /><center><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0wtkOs2p4z4/TB1gyjV91VI/AAAAAAAAAKM/2Uc-Vi9O91E/s1600/Cronulla+to+Bundeena+ferry.JPG" rel="gb_image[nice_pics]" title="..."><img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0wtkOs2p4z4/TB1gyjV91VI/AAAAAAAAAKM/2Uc-Vi9O91E/s1600/Cronulla+to+Bundeena+ferry.JPG" name="post_img_resize" alt="..." title="..." border="0" /></a><br /></center><br />The Sargent home is the 3rd from the right, blue walls and red roof (photo not from that day - it's off the net)<br /> http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1320694931/3#3 BK Ex-Change/The forum at BrahmaKumaris.info http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1320694931/3#3 constantcreations@me.com (Terry) Sun, 13 Nov 2011 03:22:17 GMT In the light of some worthwhile posts there lately, I wonder why they initiated this change? Making it harder for new readers to navigate around the site (by expecting them to register first to access the discussions surely is not what they were aiming for? - a big ask until people are moved enough to want to "get involved" http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1315459090/3#3 BK Ex-Change/Administrivia http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1315459090/3#3 constantcreations@me.com (Terry) Tue, 8 Nov 2011 00:45:32 GMT Any way to sort the genuine from the bogus? http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1306238029/62#62 BK Ex-Change/BK Concerns http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1306238029/62#62 constantcreations@me.com (Terry) Thu, 3 Nov 2011 01:17:24 GMT There's a post by  ex-L at bk.info <br /><a href="http://www.brahmakumaris.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2770#p34844" target="_blank">http://www.brahmakumaris.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2770#p34844</a><br />which is about a film festival the BKs are organising to promote themselves here<br /> <a href="http://filmfestival.brahmakumaris.org/index.jsp" target="_blank">http://filmfestival.brahmakumaris.org/index.jsp</a><br /><br />The festival organisers set up a few 'rules" about language (avoid BK jargon ... etc) Ex-L rightly makes the point that the purpose is to create PR material that the BKs can use to promote themselves, and not show anything that might be construed as controversial or indeed factual, or it may suffer the fate of TASC which was banned in some sections of the BK world (see earlier in this thread). Hard hitting documentaries need not apply....<br /><br />It took me back to 'the days of my childhood" as a BK, an apt phrase as I was indeed naive. But so too were the BKs themselves. <br /><br />I became a BK just after completing a course in film-making.  I went to madhuban within 6 weeks of becoming a BK. That I was  a "film maker" was made a big deal of as we were sent on tour around Punjab centres. But then again another of us who'd worked as an orderly was introduced at events as a doctor, and another of us who made a living making and selling leather goods at markets was told not to mention that.<br /><br />On that trip I was just taking a few photos, but on my next trip I took a film camera. Seeing that, I was encouraged by some well-known senior 'brothers"  to immediately start making a film that would reveal baba to the world!!! (I had no budget, only 10 rolls of 3 minute super 8 film and no script). <br /><br />The idea was, as usual, very "spiritual" and cosmic - reveal that SB is the father of all religions.......but all i could shoot was buildings, BKs and landscapes in Mt Abu!!. The ambition, as usual,  far exceeded any possibility of being realised. The result was nothing like the original idea, but it was a half decent showcase of the  atmosphere of Mt Abu and the madhuban experience that wasn't bad for showing to BKs who might want to go there. It was not and never was going to be something that would convince a non-believer.<br /><br />The point here is that the BKs, as seen in the post linked to above,  continue to think that there is some "killer app" out there that'll somehow bring all their christmases at once, and make the world bend its knees and give honour to the glory of SB and the BKWSU, with a sense of <i>mea culpa </i>thrown in for not recognising the true god sooner, unleash the nuclear exchange and signal to the  Bks it's time to haughtily float up to paramdham with an uphram (aloof superior) attitude of "don't blame us, we told you so - losers! See you in Dwapur Yuga!".<br /><br />...and that the killer app is ironically going to come in the form of a film - the mother of all Cin.<br /><br />Now a Jungian does understand that it is through incorporating the shadow that one grows and matures. But this is not the aim here I don't think, or what this continuing fetish with film is all about.<br /><br />I think its about what it reveals after all these decades -  a lack of self-belief somewhere on the part of BKs. BKs are usually quite easily influenced through feelings and imagery (won't go into archetypes here). the only thing that has ever moved them as much as their meditation experiences (internal cinema?) has probably only ever been in a  cinema experience (it is a most powerful medium when done well).<br /><br />They themselves, their philosophy & lifestyle are by themselves obviously inadequate tools to "reveal the father" - decades pass and the revelation still hasn't happened-   some Hollywood glitz, glamour and Spielbergian sentimentality <i>would</i> entice a captive audience to be penetrated insidiously by a truth that, told blatantly, is too subtle to be understood by the locked intellects of the shudra masses. Indeed (again) there was much talk in the 1980's of how to get Steven Spileberg "served" so as to utilise his talents into making such a film. I kid you not.<br /><br />They (the masses) are obviously too thick to recognise the truth revealed directly, so we (the bk's) shall most reluctantly have to stoop to utilise the grossest, sinful instruments such as Cin-e-ma  - for their own good of course (or have they finally officially realised that the medium - film, is not the same as the message - the content of the film, officially revealing - again -another shortcoming in the speaker of the murlis, and requiring "revision"?)<br /><br />Any Bks who are considering making a film for this festival - and it is so much easier to do a good job with today's digital technology - Go ahead and knock yourselves out! Treat it as a PR job for a client, learn your craft through practice (as i did as a BK) and you may realise how easily reality is 'editable". You'll learn some practical skills. But don't fall for your own propaganda!